Today I am talking with Liam Ball a real estate broker on Maui, who tells us his story of how he got into Bitcoin, why it is interesting to him, the parallels of Bitcoin to his personal journey and also my journey, his real life use cases with Bitcoin and why Bitcoin is real.
Bitcoin can allow person to person generosity over the entire planet. I think that’s an incredible thing. You’re taking these charitable organizations out of the middle and you’re just saying, I feel like being generous, here’s somebody who needs something and in 10 minutes they have it and it’s going right there. I think that’s amazing. – Liam Ball
I do like some of the the ethical changes or ideological changes that one tends to feel when you dive into the Bitcoin space. Things like responsibility and not entrusting third parties or governments. I like that aspect of encouraging humans to take responsibility for their situations in a self sovereign way but also in a community way. I think at the community level, where you live and helping people around you is really the best way to offer that kind of help. – Liam Ball
- Bitcoin and Buddhism
- Being a Bitcoiner and coming out of the closet
- Use cases: supporting HIV outreach team for sex workers in Uganda
- paying rent for a friends mom in Venezuela
- Bitcoin is like property title
- Learning about Bitcoin with podcasts
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ShownotesRecording Date: September 2, 2020
This is the human edited transcript for Episode 75 with Liam Ball.
Anita Posch [00:06:35] Hello, Liam. Great to have you on the show.
Liam Ball [00:06:38] Anita, it's great to finally chat with you here, we are 12 hours apart.
Anita Posch [00:06:42] Yeah, the explanation is we met on Twitter talking about Bitcoin and I'm in Austria you're on Maui and I mean it's incredible to meet like that over a common topic. And here we are doing an interview.
Liam Ball [00:07:00] I love it I'm so glad to hear your voice and it's been so fun following you through Africa. And I have a silly little piece of trivia to start the show and that is if you drill under my house so Maui Hawaii, if you drill under my house and go through the planet you come out in Botswana.
Anita Posch [00:07:19] Oh wow, that's cool. So I could have gone there when I was there, directly to you to your house.
Liam Ball [00:07:27] Exactly .
Anita Posch [00:07:27] Oh actually I would love to do this one day I'm going to visit you I'm sure.
Liam Ball [00:07:32] Through the earth. Okay.
Anita Posch [00:07:34] Yeah,of course, so how did you end up on Maui, because I guess you're not from Maui?
Liam Ball [00:07:42] Yes, I'm Canadian born I suppose, born in Toronto lived in Montreal for a little bit and I just had come to Maui like many people and just fallen in love with it. Maybe in I think 1993 was the first time I came and I just had been living a pretty boring Canadian life and I just decided I want a little more adventure. So I'm going to sell and move to Hawaii. And so I did 23 years ago.
Anita Posch [00:08:10] Okay cool.
Liam Ball [00:08:12] Yeah and my family thought I was nuts. They thought I would be back in six months but it's 23 years later.
Anita Posch [00:08:20] And you're going to stay there I guess?
Liam Ball [00:08:22] Yes Yes.
Anita Posch [00:08:24] But Maui is not very big?
Liam Ball [00:08:27] Yeah, it's population wise I think it's about 200,000 people. And then the big city Honolulu is on a different Island. And then the biggest Island is called Hawaii Island or big Island. So but it's a lot smaller than Toronto. Yeah I became a country boy I think I was a country boy.
Anita Posch [00:08:44] And how many Bitcoiners are there on Maui?
Liam Ball [00:08:47] I have one Bitcoin friend and a she's such a trooper. She's a retired professor at the college here and she doesn't love computers and I'm like come on you have to learn about this. You have to get some Bitcoin. You have to work your way to becoming a whole coiner. She's getting hip to all the lingo, but I don't think there are many many people here . Bitcoiners are so freakish about their privacy and everything I would probably never know.
Anita Posch [00:09:14] So and what are you doing on Maui? How do you make a living?
Liam Ball [00:09:17] Well I used to be a musician and I was a backup singer here for a while and then a tea farmer and actually tea is how I got turned onto Bitcoin strangely enough. Now I'm a real estate broker but my real love is architecture. I feel like the ways that Bitcoin can solve a lot of problems, architecture can solve a lot of problems too in the way that people live. If you're going to build a house imagine you know designing joy right into the space . Instead of box box box box and I think it's an art form that people respond to when they enter a really beautiful piece of architecture. They respond to it they might not know why, but they are just kind of wow, this space feels really good. And similarly a very like depressing space I see houses all the time and I walked into some houses and think Ugh get me out of here just these these dreary boxes.
Anita Posch [00:10:14] Yeah I understand I have seen your website, I think it's called Modern On Maui?
Liam Ball [00:10:19] That's right.
Anita Posch [00:10:20] Yeah. And you have great examples of architecture. I love that style that you're showing there. I was in Barcelona 25 years ago seeing the Frank Lloyd Wright water pavillion.
Yeah, basically that's how I would love to live, but you know I gotta wait. No, I don't know. So are you working self employed or for a company?
Liam Ball [00:10:47] I work for Hawaii life which is a really cool local brokerage , statewide. So it's on all the islands but basically I work by myself for myself.
Anita Posch [00:10:57] And have you done that all the time?
Liam Ball [00:11:00] Yeah. Actually my whole life I've been self-employed so I'm I'm spoiled I love it .
Anita Posch [00:11:06] And is the reason for this a kind of a freedom you want to have or why?
Liam Ball [00:11:12] I think it's more that I've had a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit. And I love when someone tells me I can't do something then I like to figure out a way to do it. I think that's how innovation happens just people finding better, easier ways to do things. There are many fulfilling careers and jobs, but I tend to do things for seven years and then I get bored and I want to do something else. So I'm just warning you, I've done real estate for about eight years , I'm about ready to do something else.
Anita Posch [00:11:47] I exactly know what you mean. I changed my place where I live every four years maximum. Sometimes it's one and a half year. And also my career as a self employed web designer or we had online platforms, we had a space where we sold designer goods and stuff. Do you think that this kind of attitude to life in a way also leads one to Bitcoin? Is there a connection?
Liam Ball [00:12:15] Yeah I definitely think so. Bitcoin is to me, it's just so bizarre and it's so strange and it's so fascinating . Once I sort of discovered it I just couldn't stop tripping out on it,like trying to figure out these wallets and these seeds and this cryptography and the ownership of numbers, because to me it feels like it's essentially ownership of a limited group of numbers. It's agreed upon. So it's like let's all agree on this 21 million and let's use this divided 21 million as our truth in money. I'm kind of rambling but yeah I do feel like it's really creative in the way that it's kind of a brilliant invention and it's such a necessary invention. So I don't know if it's because of I'm a freedom seeker necessarily that I love Bitcoin, but it's definitely fascinating to me. And I've always been curious. So I feel like I still have tons to learn.
Anita Posch [00:13:21] I think learning never stops with Bitcoin.
Liam Ball [00:13:24] Oh boy, yeah I remember not understanding the seed, the 24 words, I'm like what who's like are they storing it on a server somewhere? What if you know I mean it took me so long to figure out all the deterministic stuff and I mean it's still a little foggy to me but it's a lot clearer now.
Anita Posch [00:13:45] I think you don't need to understand every little technicality to use it or to trust in it.
Liam Ball [00:13:52] Right.
Anita Posch [00:13:53] But it makes a difference to understand the basic technological concept and how people developed it and how it's decentralized...
Liam Ball [00:14:03] yes and I know there are very different levels of understanding. And when I talked to my friend Molly, who's the retired professor, she's extremely bright, but there's just different depth that we all go to in diving into the understanding. And I just love geeking out on it. I think it's so cool and thanks to people like you and Stephan Livera and Marty Bent and Peter McCormack I've learned so much just from these podcasts - Incredible - I feel like I have a university degree in Bitcoin all from the generosity of people like you and the podcasters.
Anita Posch [00:14:42] Thank you. It's the same for me. I also listened to a lot of these other shows and also learn all the time. When did you hear about Bitcoin the first time?
Liam Ball [00:14:51] The first time was 2012. I was at the world tea expo in Las Vegas because I had this crazy idea to start a tea farm and I was growing Japanese tea here in Hawaii. And I met this really cool woman Elyse Petersen, who started a company called Tealet. And her concept was to connect small tea growers direct to consumer and Bitcoin was the payment method. I was thinking you might want to talk to Elyse too because what a fantastic idea. Now remember this is 2012 long time ago and I remember looking up Bitcoin cause I didn't know what it was and it just seemed like this this weird network and this these numbers and it's sort of like scams you know like these weird schemes and hacks and dark money. So I was like, I don't know this, this is too weird. That was my first exposure to Bitcoin and I didn't do anything I walked away and it wasn't until just about a year ago less than a year ago that a Facebook friend of mine on the big Island which is a different Island, he just posted on Facebook - Oh Bitcoin dropped to 8,000 something that would be a good time to get in now for those of you who are interested - I was like oh Bitcoin. So I kind of took a second look and I thought I really owe it to myself to find out what the hell this is. And that's .when I dived in and I was going to say can we give the rabbit a break? Let's pick a different hole, but I went down I went down whatever that hole was and it was really cool.
Anita Posch [00:16:41] What do you think can be accomplished that is important to your personal values in a way, so the most important characteristic of Bitcoin for you?
Liam Ball [00:16:52] I think that it is important for all of us to figure out . To me, it's truth, it's verifiable truth. It's there. I bought my first Bitcoin on Cash App and I withdrew to my hardware wallet. I can go and see that transfer now and you could everybody could, it's there. And in terms of ethics the phrase, it's unfuckable. You can't screw around with it. It's finite and it's true. And one of the things that I like about it - Buddhism for example - the essence of the Buddhist practice is to be aware of the reality of your current experience, your lived experience. That's a stretch to go from Buddhism but there's the truth. So that we have a concept in Buddhism called wise speech, which is don't say anything that's not true and Bitcoin is truth. It just sits there. It's 21 million and it's the mathematical gospel there, it is it's there for all to see. So I think that might be my best answer for that.
Anita Posch [00:18:05] Interesting. Let's come back to more the profane things. I .mean, I'm very interested in talking about these relations to Buddhism and other topics, political views for instance but first, because I have seen you did some things with Bitcoin already more than many hodlers do , what was your first purchase with Bitcoin?
Liam Ball [00:18:30] Okay, well that would have to be the Coldcard.
Anita Posch [00:18:33] The wallet, yeah.
Liam Ball [00:18:35] I was like oh cool this is going to be weird. It wasn't weird actually but that was my first purchase. I have to say it's a little bit scary because they're going to get it but you don't know if they know that it came from you. Cause I haven't really delved into BTCPayserver yet, that's sort of my next semester of learning I would say.
Anita Posch [00:18:59] Yeah, but you already run a node?
Liam Ball [00:19:02] Yes. Alright. I just thought from all the people that I'd heard talk, I realized this is a participatory currency. This is a currency for people, it's for us. And I guess it's kind of that ethos of responsibility. So hey get your shit together run a node, because you can't just expect a company or the government to do it. This is a participatory , monetary instrument and so Ifelt like I owed my participation and that's why I have a node running.
Yeah It's money from the people for the people and so yeah it's good to participate.
Anita Posch [00:19:47] My next semester is from running a node to using a node.
Liam Ball [00:19:51] Okay. Yeah I have the MyNode software stack and what I like about it is you can just sort of pick a new thing. I want to get into Lightning a little bit so I'm taking it step by step. But I do like being able to verify the transactions with the Blockexplorer
Anita Posch [00:20:15] yeah
Liam Ball [00:20:16] ..And I like checking that mempool.space. Cause I'm cheap, I like cheap fees .So usually on the weekends here the fees are really cheap.
Anita Posch [00:20:26] Yeah it's interesting, it's always on the weekends. And do you also look up the Blockchain Explorer behind TOR?
Liam Ball [00:20:34] Yes, I didn't use to, but now I'm being a bit more of a privacy nut.
Anita Posch [00:20:40] Yeah I'm doing this too now since I have the node and I run a Raspiblitz . Tell me about the other things, when you used Bitcoin.
Liam Ball [00:20:52] Yeah, I have some friends in Uganda, who I helped them out a couple of years ago. Actually this beautiful organization is called youth on rock and they are HIV Outreach workers and educators and they work with the sex workers of the worst slums in Kampala. I wanted to support them because I thought wow those are brave people. This is a country that was trying to pass a law where gay people should be executed. So I was inspired by what they were doing. That was a couple of years ago. And more recently buddies there reached out for a little bit of help and because COVID had happened I couldn't get to the banks I couldn't get to the grocery store where the Western union thing was. So I was like dude I'm going to send you Bitcoin okay and I'm going to teach you how to open up a - I think he opened a Binance Uganda account - and it was so cool. He was totally game. I just walked him through the steps and he opened an account. He got his wallet, he sent me a screenshot of the QR code, I sent him a little chunk of Bitcoin within minutes it was there. And then I said okay now you have to sell it and he was so on it and within a couple of hours - he was totally up to speed -and he had money to buy food and I just thought. Wow like no intermediary, I suppose his exchange is the intermediary in this case. So the exchange made some money on when he sold his Bitcoin. But the fact, that I could get it into his custody from Hawaii to this guy's phone in Uganda was kind of mind blowing.
Anita Posch [00:22:34] And in minutes and without anybody being able to interfere with it and I guess with less fees than with Western Union.
Liam Ball [00:22:43] So much less fees! I think it's 15 or $25 to send - I only sent him like 200 bucks or 200 USD filthy Fiat - I guess as we call it these days - and it cost me 8 cents or something. It was it was nothing. And then I guess he probably paid a little transaction fee on the sell side but it was just really cool to get to see the transfer of borderless value.
Anita Posch [00:23:13] I found another tweet I think you also helped someone sent Bitcoin to Venezuela. What was that story about?
Liam Ball [00:23:24] One of my almost ex boyfriends who works at meditation retreat in Massachusetts and his mother needed some help - this is where deep in COVID now it's actually the timing of this was nuts - Okay remember the big crash was it March 12th or something when the price correct stocks were crashing it was that crazy day. That's the day that I helped him send funds his mother and despite Bitcoin's worse price drop maybe ever don't know what the stats are but it's still worked he still got the money to his mother's landlord. And in seconds just incredible.And that's in that situation his mother I think she's around 80 or something she didn't exactly know her way around the technology but her landlord who lived down the hall he actually needed the payment for her rent. So it went right to him. He had a Bitcoin wallet, he knew how to do it.
Anita Posch [00:24:29] Oh that's cool!
Liam Ball [00:24:31] Yeah, that's what he wanted, I mean he's like yeah here's my address, send it to me and I'll take care of your mother and it was done.
Anita Posch [00:24:39] He already knew the positive sides of Bitcoin compared to Venezuelan currency.
Liam Ball [00:24:45] Yeah again with no government saying, what you can or can't do. And even during the worst price drop I think what started out as a hundred dollars ended up being $85 but still the fact that it happened instantaneously -and she really needed it- so we considered it a great success.
Anita Posch [00:25:07] Now it's back to probably 120 USD
Liam Ball [00:25:10] It's probably all gone now but...
Anita Posch [00:25:17] yeah people need the money to buy food and stuff.
Liam Ball [00:25:21] That's a really great use case just transfer , just moving value around the planet in seconds.
Anita Posch [00:25:27] And I think you can't do it with any other cryptocurrency that easily and that secure and permissionless.
Liam Ball [00:25:35] Just to give you an example of some something that happened to me today a real estate deal, where you have to wire wire transfer funds for these real estate deals to close and yeah the bank was on the mainland- So we have a very different time zone here in Hawaii obviously than California or the East coast. I guess we're six hours difference from the East coast of the United States. So the bank was like -Oh sorry the cutoff is 2:00 PM and meanwhile you have to pay like a $45 wire transfer fee and they're taken down and down these complicated codes and names - absolutely ridiculous, I feel like screaming at all at the stupidity of this technology, that you know it's going to take a whole day to get the money moved and for a ridiculously high fee.
Anita Posch [00:26:28] Did you ever pay or get paid for your work or pay for real estate with
Liam Ball [00:26:34] bitcoin?
No not yet,but I wouldn't be surprised . Here's another cool thing that I liked, another way of thinking about Bitcoin is understand property title. I don't know how it works in Austria, but if you sell a piece of property you get title to the land which is like ownership plus the house. Bitcoin is like title, you get title to that chunk of Bitcoin and it's exactly the same here in the state of Hawaii. When you buy property it gets registered at the Bureau of conveyances and that's like the blockchain. So the Bureau of conveyances records all the deeds like this person sold, this property to this person, it gets recorded and that's exactly what Bitcoin does. You move your chunk of Bitcoin from you to that person, it gets recorded and then now that person has title to that Bitcoin and that person can send it to someone else. So it's exactly the same model of transfer and of recording as real estate. So pretty interesting.
Anita Posch [00:27:42] Yeah that's a pretty good similarity, because you could also say the world has limited space and there is only a limited number of real estate properties to buy. Let's say it that way. And on the other hand you only have 21 million of Bitcoin. So it's also limited in the same way as the space on earth is limited for real estate.
Liam Ball [00:28:06] Exactly. And I think somebody once, when I was very early on, they called the act of buying Bitcoin like a land grab, which means like: Oh there's only so much land so grab some while you can it is very similar. It's like yeah there's 21 million pieces of land and you can subdivide those 21 million by a lot more than what is it a hundred million each anyway but it's a good analogy for sure.
Anita Posch [00:28:36] Talking about analogies: you're a gay guy, I'm a lesbian women. You proposed a topic when we prepared for this interview and you said discovering Bitcoin is like an analogy to coming out of the closet. Tell me more about
Liam Ball [00:28:58] that.
Let me try to paint a picture. So we all grew up thinking money is money and we don't really question it, but there's a presumption that you use money, you don't question it. Here's your money, okay. Then when you discover Bitcoin, you kind of go, well wait a minute and then you learn and you essentially go wait a second money is not working and Bitcoin becomes the thing that you discover is the real truth. I'm back to my obsession with truth. Bitcoin is like the truth of money and this money that everyone's talking about this Fiat is not really true. Why that's similar to coming out of the closet is - I'm in my fifties, so I grew up in a world that had this presumption of heterosexuality. Okay pretty much every movie you watched, every magazine you read, it was like you're in this weird world, where that's just how it is. You don't question it. Right you got married to a woman blah, blah, blah. But then your body, it's like no my body's not working like that. It's and that's like a really beautiful gift as far as I'm concerned, because your body forces you to question the dominant narrative and you say, but that's not who I am, that's not my truth! My truth is this! And so I don't know, is this analogy working?
Anita Posch [00:30:33] I understand that completely. I can totally relate to that. I am I'm quite your age, I'm 50, when I grew up I didn't know the word lesbian until I was 20. I lived in this world, I didn't know that this is a possible way to live and nobody was talking about it. And I also had relationships with men of course, because you don't see anything else. You think that's the way it is. And that's the same for money. Up until Bitcoin I never looked into how money is created and comes into the world. I didn't know. Bitcoin opened my eyes and it's a new, I mean, I identify myself as a Bitcoin. In a way it's also a part of identity for a time maybe, a limited time but maybe also for complete life. Because I do believe in my case also like having the freedom to not do things or being self employed is a part of my identity. And so Bitcoin was fitting into this place into my my world. Also with coming out of the closet, I completely understand it. And maybe uh Bitcoiners who are not queer,like the majority of people who are heterosexual, maybe they now can have a little empathy for the way how we feel. Because if you're a Bitcoiner you're a weird person for everybody. You're like, what are you kind of a nerd? What do you want? Why do I need to keep my keys secure for myself - I'm going to the bank and you're like this weirdo and you're always talking with people, who don't understand what you're talking about. And basically it's the same when you want to explain to people how life feels as a gay, queer, trans, person.
Liam Ball [00:32:33] Exactly. And I feel like I'm coming out of the closet all over again as a Bitcoiner it's like whoa that freedom you felt,wWhen you finally came out as a gay person .And now I'm like no you guys have to buy Bitcoin like that. Like this is, you're gonna feel free! It's gonna set you free! And you know the U S dollar is such a scam. Well that's the irony of it,it is scam kind of, I mean it's a popular scam but it's a scam.
And for gay people heterosexuality is the scam. It just doesn't work in our bodies. I love heterosexuality! I mean cause heteros produced most of the gay people on the planet. So keep pumping them up. But I'm just saying that - I like your point . And I think most Bitcoiners even if they got their hetero pride on, I think they are totally fine with gay people because gay sex is as libertarian as it gets! I mean a man a man having sex with a man or a woman having sex with a woman that's like like full on libertarianism right there, because it's what you want to do. Both of you want to do it and everyone else can buzz off! It's none of their business.
Anita Posch [00:33:54] I understand now what you mean. Exactly. As long as other people are not hurt by what I'm doing then it's none of their business and it's none of my business ,what heterosexuals do. They can live as free as they want as long as they don't interfere with my freedom and that actually I think this is all, what gay people or queer people want from the world. Because often people tell me why I we are so strong about this opinion. Yeah, I mean you can marry now?! So everything is fine. No it's not, as long as there are things like correction rape in South Africa, where lesbian women are raped to become hetero again. As long as there are things like that, it's not okay.
Liam Ball [00:34:50] It's definitely not okay. And I'm no expert on libertarian i sm so I'm sure people will correct me on this, but you know it's sort of like my body is my natural instrument of life on the planet and it's mine to use it in the way that I see fit. And when I meet another person with a body and we want to do some stuff with our bodies then good that's our liberty and our birthright. But you're right, it gets tricky when governments want to pass laws that call for the execution of people that want to use their bodies in certain ways.
Anita Posch [00:35:29] Also when I was in Zimbabwe when Robert Mugabe still was the dictator running the country, he once said that homosexuals are like pigs. And yeah so it's actually also not really funny to live in a country where you are compared to pigs just because you do what you want and you are not a part of the majority
Liam Ball [00:35:56] It's weird. The other thing I mention to people, I mean most people in the Western world get it.They get homosexuality and get that it's the way we are. But people sometimes call it sexual orientation in English, but it's also like who you fall in love with.
It's hard to describe but when you fall madly in love with someone that's unstoppable. It's just like how could it be wrong, if it's so powerful? So can you tell I have a new boyfriend?
Anita Posch [00:36:38] Yeah and I I heard after a long time.
Liam Ball [00:36:41] Yeah it's been a long time. Just not not too many single people on Maui.
Anita Posch [00:36:47] Oh yeah, that must be hard, it's even hard here in Austria because as you know, I've split up two months ago so I'm back on the market. But actually I'm in love with Bitcoin and the work I do. So basically Bitcoin saved my mental health in a way now, because I mean I'm sad that the partnership didn't work out but on the other hand I have my work and -never in my life - I always was looking for - I think it's called Ikigai- Ikigai is the thing that you found, that you are living for, you're interested in, it feeds yourself , it makes you create stuff -And I think Bitcoin is this thing for me. So Bitcoin has saved me now at the moment. There is also kind of an optimism in me that in all the crisis we have now, that Bitcoin is the way to go. In a way it gives me hope.
Liam Ball [00:37:54] I know a lot of the podcasters have been sort of touching on it, but it's like this whole new chapter in a way of being and I do like some of the the ethical changes or ideological changes that one tends to feel when you dive into the Bitcoin space. Things like responsibility and not entrusting third parties or governments. I like that aspect of encouraging humans to take responsibility for their situations in a self sovereign way but also in a community way. I think at the community level, where you live and helping people around you is really the best way to offer that kind of help.
And the other thing -sort of a different topic I'm sort of running in a different direction - the fact that Bitcoin can allow person to person generosity over the entire planet I think that's an incredible thing. So that you're taking these charitable organizations out of the middle and you're just saying,I feel like being generous here's somebody who needs something and in 10 minutes they have it and it's going right there. I think that's amazing.
Anita Posch [00:39:15] Yeah that's really great because you also don't need these organizations anymore, which also need money to run and so the funds go directly to the person and you don't lose anything on that way.
Liam Ball [00:39:27] Exactly.That's the decentralized nature of it, which is so interesting. And it makes me wonder how many other things that we rely on could benefit from decentralization. Not just the monetary thing but perhaps governments can be replaced by artificial official intelligence that are decentralized and accomplish a lot more, who knows?
Anita Posch [00:39:55] I think that's the way to go in a way, but it will take a long time I think until we are there. But I think, too, to take out corruption or - people tend to, if their power gets too big then they tend to get corrupt or to be too powerful and maybe there is a place for some in some parts more decentralized governance that's mathematical a bound. Rules without rulers as
Liam Ball [00:40:25] Yes . Let the algorithm be the rule and let it be consensus created kind of beautiful.
Anita Posch [00:40:33] How have your political views shifted since becoming infused with Bitcoin?
Liam Ball [00:40:41] Wow what a loaded question that is. I think the biggest gift that I've realized is that politics is not the solution to anything. I think that's what I'm getting. I think that these systems are rigged, the money's rigged and here's what I love, what I love noticing. There are people in the world - I have to use Elon Musk, because he's just so awesome - there are people in the world creating value and doing amazing things and they're not wasting their time on political arguments. And the metaphor I use is like General Motors and Chrysler arguing over a shitty car design, while Elon Musk is looking a totally different way and is like: here's a cybertruck! It's like for the U S politics let's say because that's what's prominent here obviously, Republican or Democrat whatever, they're both funky systems and so to me the Bitcoin is like the Elon Musk, where Bitcoin is off here creating truths and unfuckability and strong economic store of value and it's really a stretch and I'm not well educated enough to really comment on how Bitcoin could displace politics entirely, but to get back to your original question ,I don't have much interest in politics any more because I think it's an energy drain, it's a psychic drain. And with the exception of local politics, I think helping your local community again yeah that sounds cheesy, but I have a friend she's out there helping the homeless people, that's all she does all day long is assist those in need. And that's great. She doesn't need a government. Does that answer your question? Is not interesting to me, Bitcoin is interesting to me.
Anita Posch [00:42:56] I completely understand. I stopped watching the news, because it's really dreadful. Every day it's the same and they are fighting each other...
Liam Ball [00:43:09] And there's bullshit all around, its spin and its agenda and yeah the mainstream media just shoves this one single narrative down everyone's throat. Nobody thinks for themselves, nobody verifies, nothing gets verified. It drives me nuts. People read headlines, nothing get's verified, they jump to conclusions and they create these firmly established beliefs based on total lies. And it's crazy making, it's absolute crazy-making.
Anita Posch [00:43:38] To find the truth
Liam Ball [00:43:40] Verify don't trust! Verify your news stories, before you fucking post it. Sorry.
Anita Posch [00:43:50] That's true. You also pointed out that you had a big Bitcoin epiphany?
Liam Ball [00:44:00] It seems simple. I was walking by myself, I'm walking along a Harbor looking at some boats, listening to some birds and it just popped into my head that Bitcoin is more real than US dollars. It occurred, because usually people think, Oh Bitcoin's virtual, it's digital, it doesn't really exist, it's not tangible. And on this walk, because of the verifiability of Bitcoin and the fact that you own title to your Bitcoin, it was suddenly like oh my God, it is real! It's more real than the US dollar, which you can't verify, the dollar that you have. You don't know where it came from. You don't know, if it's real, you don't know, if it was just a ledger number created by the FED and it's like my whole world just clicked. Bitcoin is more real than US dollars! It's like mindblowing , because it is math. It is virtual, but math is real, numbers are real. And it was an important understanding for me to have, especially in my ability to bring others on board.
Anita Posch [00:45:16] And it's completely auditable.
Liam Ball [00:45:21] Yeah. And there's nothing to audit with your with your US dollars or Euros. You can't trace, where it was born. It's so cool that you can trace, where your Bitcoin was born. I think theoretically you could just go back to the block where it was originated as a block subsidy.
Anita Posch [00:45:42] Yeah definitely. So that's a funny analogy like having a little baby Bitcoin growing up and getting out into the world from the miner, which is like the hospital where it's born.
Liam Ball [00:45:55] Right It's like Oh on this 10 minute chunk of the day these I guess what would it have been 25 Bitcoin were born or 50
Anita Posch [00:46:05] Yeah. So every Bitcoin has a birthday.
Liam Ball [00:46:08] Yes, depending on the halving, was it born with 49 other babies or 24 other babies
Anita Posch [00:46:16] Yeah Sisters and brothers.
Liam Ball [00:46:17] 11 and
Anita Posch [00:46:21] a half.
Liam we're coming to an end soon and I think there's going to be a second part someday.
One of my new questions is one I stole from Tim Ferriss. What would you put on an ad that is published on all social media platforms? A short message for everybody to see. What do you want the world to know?
Liam Ball [00:46:45] Be kind. You can always be kind even if you can't stand someone or something. I talked to you a little bit about ignorance and people use ignorance as a nasty word like oh that person's so ignorant. It just means, that they don't know yet. Like back to the babies, you wouldn't say a baby's ignorant. Cause it doesn't know how to speak. It just hasn't learned yet. So I guess it would be cool for people, if you meet somebody and you're like Oh this person's so ignorant, think of it, maybe reframe it as this person doesn't know yet, they're prior to having knowledge. Cause I was ignorant about Bitcoin a year ago. I was prior to having the knowledge, but now I have the knowledge. So be kind, everybody's doing the best they can.
Anita Posch [00:47:36] People who are not into Bitcoin, we should be kind to them.
Liam Ball [00:47:39] Yes, they're prcoiners. They just don't know yet.
Anita Posch [00:47:43] Exactly.
Liam Ball [00:47:45] But they will they will. Soon enough, I can tell you that.
Anita Posch [00:47:51] What do you think is everybody overlooking while talking about Bitcoin?
Liam Ball [00:47:58] One of the things that's still a mystery to me is the mining world and I sometimes worry - I only worry because I'm ignorant , I'm pre knowledge I don't know how mining works but I do acknowledge that the strength and the security of the whole thing - the miners play a big role in that. And I know there are people much smarter than I am that are already working on that. But I guess I would hate to see mining get centralized or controlled, but maybe I'll discover something next week, that's being overlooked. That's what's so cool about this world, I feel like I'm discovering new aspects all the time.
Anita Posch [00:48:43] When you got into Bitcoin, how did you teach yourself? How did you know that this website or this person is telling something about Bitcoin that is true?
Liam Ball [00:48:55] I think you see a lot. I started with Andreas M. Antonopoulos, who I am I love. He's just so awesome, I love, he's such a great speaker and then I graduated to Peter McCormack and then I graduated to Marty Bent and then Stefan Livera. And I just think it's so cool I feel like you get a sense of what's true through repetition and reevaluation and doing your own verification. If Andreas says something that sounds cool I'll do my best to verify it and have it and find other examples of that theory echoed by somebody else. And I think it's great intellectual honesty in Bitcoin.
Anita Posch [00:49:39] Agree. Totally . Thanks. Have we missed anything that you want to say to our listeners?
Liam Ball [00:49:49] I guess I said be kind and then oh yeah build cool architecture. Don't build boring buildings. Please build things that are as cool as Bitcoin.
That's what Ithought I would want to say.
Anita Posch [00:50:06] And maybe build stuff and not only talk about what is bad or what should be done.
Liam Ball [00:50:12] Good point. Yes. Get out there and build something. Build products, build services, build value.
Anita Posch [00:50:19] Super Liam. Please tell our listeners where they can follow you the only Bitcoin real estate broker in Hawaii.
Liam Ball [00:50:29] I would say just find me on Twitter at ModernonMaui. And my my blog is it's a fun place to look at cool houses, it's modernon ma ui.com
Anita Posch [00:50:40] I will put that in the show notes.
Liam Ball [00:50:43] Thank you so much Anita. It's really fun chatting with you. And I appreciate all the work that you do getting this content out there.
Anita Posch [00:50:50] I thank you very much. Have a good evening.